284 shehane load data 284 shehane load data

Gun builder Ryan Pierce of Piercision Rifles explains: Heres a 5-shot 0.191 group at 100 yards with my .284 Shehane fire-forming loads. Thanks Cody! NEW for 2019! Bryan did all the stock work and fitted the action, rails, and RAD recoil pad. Ryan is using 54.0 grains simply as a fire-forming load. Dont lose your accuracy by having carbon build up and close off the clearance required for the most accurate bullet release through a muzzle brake. Note: Extra charges apply for neck-turning and neck expansion operations, or specialized cartridge-forming operations. With the price of premium brass topping $1.00 per case for popular match cartridges, it makes sense to consider annealing your brass to extend its useful life. Hornady 284 Winchester Match bullets Hornady offers 4 bullets in .284 ranging from 162grain to 190grain similar to the other offerings in terms of bullet weight. In features a super-low profile carbon composite stock. I use Widden dies. Best bullets for it are Berger 180gr Hybrids, 195gr EOLs, and Sierras 183gr MatchKing. Henry: Youre never too old. The .284 Shehane is a slightly modified wildcat that retains the same 35 shoulder as the parent case. 1000-yard shooting keeps us all humble, but we still keep trying to see how good we can do. Multi-Discipline Versatility Many championships have been won, and many records set with those two bullets in the .308 Win. For F-TR you can shoot either the .223 Rem or .308 Win, but you have many load options. We know that Krieger, Bartlein, Satern, and Hawk Hill Custom all make fine cut-rifled barrels as well. For these posed photos, he removed his safety glasses. I have a concrete bench using a slab from a yard furniture place on concrete blocks. Go to page. Thanks for reading and good luck Emil Kovan, Share the post "Best F-Class Cartridge Choices For Mid-Range and Long-Range". I push out to 600 yds and do a ladder test in round-robin format. Emil Kovan is one of the top F-Class shooters in the world. After I get the feedback I need from my sighters its time to go for record. [The load was] 180 Hybrids with 54.0 grains of H4831 SC. This is my second season shooting F-Open. After record fire begins I shoot very fast, holding off for the wind. I think thats due to having more meat in the receiver area. Do you tune the barrel to the load? is formidable indeed. The 284 KMR IMP seems to have two nodes, one around 2820 fps and other at 2940 fps. If you want to run 180gr-class 7mm bullets over 2900 FPS, it is cheaper and more convenient to have a barrel chambered in 284 KMR IMP than to spend $650 for a magnum bolt. Bryan never seems to be happy with the status quo. But the majority of Aggregates are probably still being won with 30-caliber bullets shot from some kind of magnum case. The barrel with which I shot my record was removed after that match so I dont put too many rounds on it before the Nationals. Team LBB shot well, to earn a second straight Mid-Range National Title, and grab second (Silver) at Long Range. The stainless Blake barrel is chambered for the .284 Shehane wildcat, and sports an F-Class Products tuner on the end. Lapua makes great brass for it (no surprise there) and Berger makes great bullets: 130gr VLD, 140gr VLD, 140gr Hybrids. Darrell tells us: Many of my customers take this brass and load it as is and go straight to a match and shoot some very nice groups., With Darrells hydro-forming service you dont have to buy any special dies or other equipment. The paper tells the rest of the story. Q: You believe consistent neck tension (i.e. Is there anything unique about your hardware that gave you an edge? recoil reduction system (hydraulic-damped buttpad), Bix N Andy trigger, and Nightforce Competition scope. The 6.5-284 Norma originated as a wildcat cartridge based on the .284 Winchester cartridge necked down to 6.5 mm. I offer that die-making service in addition to barrel chambering. All these components have been a successful combination that has worked flawlessly in my other rifle. Its OK to be frugal, but sometimes cutting corners will cause you more problems and have you chasing your tail. You Better Believe It". I chose this action based on BAT Machines impeccable reputation. Here's the rifle . My fireform loads are going 2765 FPS. But no, this was done with heavy 180gr Berger Hybrid bullets and the .284 Shehane. Darrell is a hydro-forming wizard who has perfected the process over the last couple of years. I have a 29 barrel also though since its a setback. The .284 Shehane has won in Benchrest as well as F-Class competition. I was working in the shop, wife walked through and said You are building that for me arent you? Well Yes, dear I said of course so I Lost my rifle., Forum member 1shot is proud of this new F-Classer: Just got my first F-Open rifle finished chambered in .284 Shehane. I sent him a Panda F-Class action with a +20 MOA Picatinny rail. 7mm (.284) remains the caliber to beat in F-Class Open Division (though some shooters have had success with .30-Cal short magnums.) Up until 2020, this required necking up 6.5-284 to 7mm, then fireforming to a 284 Shehane. This was the first five rounds through it after I cleaned it after the last match. DJs Brass can process everything from .17 Fireball all the way up to the big magnum cases. I figured if I get it up to 2935-2950 fps that will be a point or two saved in a several day match. I never practice. This rifle project began several years ago. This insures the gun returns to the same spot after recoil. The 284 KMR IMP allows you to almost match magnum cartridge velocity in a standard-bolt-face action. For example, if you shoot a 22 Dasher, Darrell can hydro-form the cases to a 6 Dasher and then neck them down to .22 caliber. Last year I shot a 3.348 10-shot group at 1000 with my .284 Win Heavy Gun fitted with a Time Precision Tuner. I use Bore Tech Eliminator on three patches, then follow with a wet nylon brush. He decided to go with a Brux 1:8.5-twist, 4-groove cut-rifled barrel. I only test, keeping a notebook with all the info. Register for the Forum and you can add your favorite gun to the list. Youve proved them wrong. Henry: I try to keep my charge weights consistent to one kernel of powder. I do most of my testing at 300 to 500 yards, shooting off my deck so I can see my shots immediately. I use Redding bushing dies, apply Imperial sizing wax, resize, wipe off wax, clean and uniform the primers pockets using the RCBS Trim Mate Case prep center, then apply Imperial dry neck lube with a bore mop. Everything turned out flawless. It has already demonstrated great promise, scoring second place in its very first match, a 320 at 1000 yards in Wyoming. Best bullets for the 6mm Dasher are: Vapor Trail 103gr, Berger 105 Hybrid, 108 BT, and 105 VLD (hunting). I dont primarily shoot for groups. Yes, thats a long, heavy barrel, but I think the length gives me a velocity advantage. Note I selected that load based on accuracy, NOT raw speed. Uniform velocity gives me more consistent vertical point of impact. regulated countries every rifle cartridge combo has to be proofed at 125% of this maximum C.I.P. The K&M arbor with seating force gauge shows the need to do this. At this stage in life, we now have the time and money to get good equipment and rifles. It is chambered (no surprise) for the 6 PPC cartridge, which dominates the short-range game. It shoots better then I do. The rifle features a single-feed Alpin action, with Hart 26 1:8-twist barrel, chambered for the 6BRX (6mmBR wildcat) with .269 neck. Turns out this was my fault. One of the most popular features of our Shooters Forum is the ongoing Pride and Joy thread. But no, this was done with heavy 180gr Berger Hybrid bullets and the .284 Shehane, an improved version of the .284 Winchester. Load development for me starts with each new barrel. However, to truly compare the cost of shooting the two calibers you must figure in barrel life. Father Ken also competed at the Nationals, shooting great in both individual and team events. balk at spending x amount of $$$ on a given piece of reloading gear that can provide tangible results, while easily spending several times that on the . Tommy made my other stocks as well. In Long-Range F-Open Class (out to 1000 yards), the big, high-BC bullets rule. This is a 1:9 twist, 1.250 straight contour for 32. _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-6323545-2']); Our friend Erik Cortina notes that the .284 Shehane has a velocity edge over the straight .284 Win because it holds more powder: The Shehane has more capacity than the .284 Winchester. Darrell took the time to advised me every step of the way to allow me to shoot a 3.158 (5) shot group to win my first round of my first competitive match ever. Mike Youngblood, Share the post "Save Time and Barrel Life Let DJs Hydro-Form Your Brass". To read the accompanying article click here. And now, with the introduction of Reloder 17, the .284 Win is capable of driving 180gr VLDs at nearly 3000 fps, a speed that once demanded a short magnum (or bigger) case. I usually start to consider tossing the brass around 15 firings. Joel currently works as the Supplier Quality Process Engineer for MMI-TruTec, a company that offers barrel surface coatings that can further extend your barrel life. If you do this with your fouler shots you get your fire-forming accomplished without using up any extra barrel life.. The stock by Precision Rifle & Tool has a 3-longer fore-end which solves the problem. Charles Ballard always used eye and ear protection. Cody- do You also use the Atlas for competition? Bill Shehane developed a wildcat (.284 Shehane) different shoulder angle (a little more case capacity). The action is topped with a stainless BAT tapered (+20 MOA) Picatinny scope rail. He has learned a few special techniques along the way to ensure uniform case-forming. The front rest is a SEB Max (see above). Amazing..!! In the F-Open division, Norm Harrold of Team McMillan shot great from the start, topping the field to win the F-Open division. Typical load for a Shehane is around 57.0 grains of Hodgdon H4831 SC. By blowing the sidewalls out 0.010, the .284 Shehane picks up about 3.3 grains of extra case capacity. Improved by definition means made better, I took a great cartridge, and modified it to increase capacity, reduce pressure, and increase brass life. If I had to pick one cartridge for F-Class (both mid- and long-range) I would pick the .284 Winchester or one of its variants. Share the post "Sunday GunDay: We the People .284 Shehane F-Open Rifle". This gave me the right amount of wind to work with. Jason noticed that Bryan had been adding aluminum rails to the front of Cerus stocks to lower the center of gravity and improve tracking. Henry also runs a combo tuner/muzzle-brake. Our buddy Erik Cortina interviewed Norm in this video, starting at 00:15: Interview with F-Open Champ Norm Harrold at 00:15: In Team competition, Team X-Men won the 1000-Yard F-TR Team Title, with a 1568-61X score. SurpriseVelocities Rise, So Load Must Be Tweaked He tells us: I found this piece of wood as a return at a lumber yard about 7-8 years ago. As much as I like the .284 Win, for long-range competitions I like the .300 WSM even more. Rifle SpecificationsAll the Hardware Some of my cases have been fired at least 10 times with primer pockets reasonably firm. Darrell Jones offers this service for a variety of popular cartridges: 6 PPC, 30 PPC, 30 BR, 6 BRA (BR Ackley), 6mm Grinch, 6 BRDX, 6 BRX, .260 Ackley, .284 Shehane and of course the very popular 6mm Dasher. Complete game changer! At least with regard to brass the situation should improve this year: https://www.lapua.com/new-lapua-brass-cartridge-cases-for-2021/. Record Fire Q: What are the advantages of your stocks 5-wide fore-end and 3-wide rear plate? After that I play a little with seating depth and look for a change. var _gaq = _gaq || []; Sort By: Items Per Page: Item Total: (13) 0 - 13 6mm/284 Winchester Competition Seating Die 076-55414 | Redding $158.10 In Stock 6mm /284 Winchester Competition Bushing Neck Die Set 076-58414 | Redding $381.62 I chose Bryan for two reasons first, I have shot with him a few times at National matches and he is approachable and very helpful. Down one mark cut the group in half! Pretty much ALL of them told me that if they had it to do all over again, they WOULD NOT go with the Shehane and, instead, stick with the stock 284 Winchester! Henry: I have followed the AccurateShooter Forum since 2008. with 130-, 140-, 150-, and 160-grain bullets are 3,130, 3,079, 2,968, and 2,864 fps respectively. Birchwood Casey Shoot-N-C 17.25" Sight-in Target - 5 Targets What is not to love about the 284 Shehane? Once you get it formed I would push it faster than that or I wouldnt even bother with the Shehane. How important is practice, and what do you do during a typical practice session? We hope these Pride and Joy rifles may provide inspiration for our readers, whetting their appetite for their next competition, varminting, or hunting rifle project. I sort my bullets to 0.005 overall length, rejecting about five percent. Ryan is using 54.0 grains simply as a fire-forming load. But, the added recoil of the .284, even with front and rear rests aligned, took me off target. Does this really help reduce extreme spread? On this build, I am trying a BixN Andy trigger for the first time. If you get the same push on the same bullet with the same neck tension, good things are going to happen. Tips for F-Class Competitors Cleaning Procedures After I am happy with my set-up, I take a position similar to that of a conventional prone shooter. Think how much range time (and barrel life) that saved me. I considered the Leupold competition scopes but ultimately decided on the Nightforce BR. This sports a suppressed, 26 MTU 1:7.5-twist barrel. Well done father and son! The .284 Win gives better barrel life with only giving up a few inches to the 7mmRSAUM. The stocks track perfectly. With the .284 Shehane, you have a .308 bolt face, medium action, and Lapua brass. Here is a striking camo-finished Elesio (Competition Machine) Tubegun chambered for 7mm SAUM. Locally, I use a Champions Choice soft bag. Home. The 6.5X47 Lapua was designed for 300-meter competition, but as soon as it was released, it was adopted by F-Class, benchrest, and tactical shooters. Two 4 x 8 sheets of plywood hold four IBS targets. I clean my barrels at the end of each day when I get home. I did trim the Berger VLDs to the shortest bullet length with a Hoover Trimmer, and then pointed the meplats just enough to close them with a Whidden pointer. .284 Shehane Load Development Do you trickle to the kernel? For whatever reason, between 100 to 300 rounds, as the barrel gets broken-in, the velocity climbs significantly.. Andy told me if I loaded back to the previous velocity, in his experience, it would stay there. Bryans rifle is shown below: I recommend chambers throated for the 185/200 grain projectiles over the 215/230 grain bullets. Tuning Loads for the .284 Win Improved Cartridges (function() { This barrel has 2200 rounds through it. After he cleans his barrel, Joel knows it takes two or three shots to foul in the bore before accuracy returns. Darrell normally offers a 10-day turn-around. I will occasionally mess with the tuner and tighten things up if possible. Base collar is gold metallic, followed by the red. Forum Member Gunnermhr states: This is my new 12-lb Dasher for the 1000 Yard Benchrest silhouette matches. Now dont get me wrong, at 22 pounds with a decelerator recoil pad, the .284 is comfortable to shoot. You use less powder than the 7 mags, and have great accuracy and ballistics even while fire-forming. I started calling anyone I could thing of to see if they had any idea what could be causing this problem. BAT Machine M Action Note the 5-wide fore-end which is not legal for F-Class. That way your fouler shots do double-duty and you get your brass fire-formed without putting extra rounds through your expensive barrel. Henry: The reason I rechambered my 7mm barrels to .284 Shehane was not velocity, pressure, or brass life. In this section, Charles Ballard explains the basics of shooting an F-Class match, from the initial prep period to end of match. If it makes sense, try it. The accompanying data was developed using Sierra bullets fired in a 26-inch Match Grade Machine test . Henry: I do not consider myself another Carlos Hathcock or some master marksman. Jerry said go for it and, as it turned out, the rifle delivered the velocity I wanted, plus extraordinary accuracy to boot. In second place was Team McMillan with 1553-53X: Paul Phillips, Derek Rodgers, Jeff Rorer, Brad Sauve, John Droelle (Captain), Ray Gross (Coach). The 284 Shehane is a moderately blown out 284, with 3% extra capacity over the parent case. The case length of the .284 measures 2.170" (55.1mm). However, by blowing the sidewalls out 0.010, the .284 Shehane picks up about 3.3 grains of extra case capacity. Our discussion will analyze cartridge selection based on the four different F-Class sub-disciplines: Open Mid-Range, Open Long-Range, F-TR Mid-Range, and F-TR Long Range. EDITOR: Guys, there is a ton of solid gold information in this article take your time and read it carefully. Q: Henry, you have been a Forum member for many years. The Lawn Ranger The .300 WSM loaded with Berger 215gr or 230gr Hybrids is very tough to beat at long range, and it is currently my number one choice. In the versatility section I will elaborate more on this subject. Success: 2910 FPS with Ten-Shot ES of 7 and SD of 3 My bullets were so consistent that I did not sort by bearing surface. Im getting 2930-2950 fps with spreads in the 3-5 fps range. Here is a 6BR Ackley Improved (6BRA) built by Alex Wheeler. If your barrel or bullets are average, dont expect to perform above average in competition. In 2013, Henry Pasquet won the IBS 1000-Yard Nationals shooting a .284 Shehane. Four other people have shot their first 1000-yard matches with my rifles, including my wife, and all of them won relays! This is the .284 Winchester rig that Charles Ballard used to win back-to-back F-Open titles in 2008 and 2009. This design versatility is one reason I recommend Master Class stocks. Trigger: I recommend and use Jewell triggers. Eventually, at the end of my last string, the gun blew a few primers. It takes a great rifle to approach that goal, but it is also up to the shooter to learn and experiment as much as possible in order to achieve success. Holding elevation in F-Class is crucial. On top is a Trijicon Accupower riflescope. I thought we had a load dialed-in, so I was fairly confident going to the North Carolina Long-Range State Championships. In a hurry, dont have time? The 284 is already a pretty straight case and comes with a 35 shoulder so I'm not sure it would be worth the extra time and money to blow it out to a 40. You use less powder than the 7 mags, and have great accuracy and ballistics even while fire-forming. The action is from the first rifle I purchased with my own money 21 years ago (700VSS). The rifle now sports a 24 Brux barrel chambered in 6mm Creedmoor, with aftermarket PT&G Bolt and DBM metal. Let DJ do the work for you! Mike Wilson (3 Time IBS Record Holder; 2013 and 2014 1000-yard IBS Shooter of the Year. We also compared notes and made each other better. This rig scored second place in its very first match, a 320 at 1000 yards in Wyoming. I do not clean until the match is over. We also remove the carbon build-up in muzzle brakes. The extra boiler room is enough to drive the 180s at 2900-2950 fps with H4831sc. No bad reports about the new lots and the new box I have fireformed seem just as tight. Primer pockets start to get a little looser and the brass seems to need more sizing than the newer brass with less firings. Joel explains: I like to have relatively new brass always ready. I noticed that Bryan had been adding aluminum rails to the front of Cerus stocks to lower the center of gravity and improve tracking. Forum Member JimmyMac posted: Picked up my new 6 PPC today. But I was hooked after that match. In moderate conditions, the 6mm Dasher is unbeatable. This is a very popular option for F-Open Shooters. HoustonWe Have a Problem My old straight .284 load at 2890 fps had ES spread in single digits for 10 shots. Well there IS a better solution you can have your new brass hydro-formed to your exact specifications for a reasonable cost. DJs Brass Service now offers custom case hydro-forming to your exact specs. I use Hodgdon H4831sc powder, CCI BR2 primers, and pointed 180gr Bergers., Share the post "Accurate Cartridges The .284 Shehane, an Improved .284 Win", Tags: .284 Shehane, .284 Winchester, Erik Cortina, F-Class, F-Open, Improved, Ryan Pierce. I wanted to do something different PAINT it. But no, this was done with heavy 180gr Berger Hybrid bullets and the .284 Shehane, an improved version of the .284 Winchester. Heres my advice: 01263 739923 Phone lines open till 10pm, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year - Shop Open From Monday to Friday 7.30am - 4pm It was all about bolt lift. Explore. Powders include IMR, Hodgdon, Winchester This We the People rifle will be one of my primary rifles for F-Open competition. After my first string this load started hammering. Best powders are: Varget, H4895, and Reloder 15. The Ultimate F-Open Rig (function() { Now that Lapua and Peterson has released 284 Winchester brass, this could alleviate the need to neck up 6.5 brass. Big accuracy windows allow loads to perform well in different conditions and geographical locations. The .284 Shehane has won in Benchrest as well as F-Class competition. On top is a Nightforce 12-42x52mm Benchrest scope with CH-3 reticle. Gun builder Ryan Pierce of Piercision Rifles explains: Heres a 5-shot 0.191 group at 100 yards with my .284 Shehane fireforming loads. The rifle began its life as a Will McClosky Cerus stock. We ran about .002 neck tension with the 180s seated just touching the lands. 2018 was my first National event and was a learning experience for me. It had 2000 as a straight .284 Win and then I set it back to .284 Shehane to form brass with. This blue marble-painted beauty features a BAT B action timed by Alex, fitted with Jewell trigger, and Borden trigger guard. These are all very well-made and suitable for F-Class. Recently had Darrell Jones of DJs Brass Service hydro-form 6 BRX brass for me. It was still early in the morning and I felt that the heavier bullets would be easier to see against the berm. This load gave us 2910 fps velocity with an Extreme Spread (ES) of 7 fps and a Standard Deviation (SD) of 3 fps over ten (10) shots. This stock features a fully-adjustable buttplate plus a removable cheek-piece with thumb-wheel adjustment. I would not go any hotter in the interest of case life. Below is a video by Editor F-Class John, showing the features of the Kestros ZR stock. This keeps the center of gravity low and helps the rifle recoil smoothly with less hop in the bags. _gaq.push(['_trackPageview']); Ya, I figured why not I had some old barrels laying around so I just chopped 2 off the back and 1 off the front and chambered it up as a Shehane. I have had an interest in 1000-yard competition for many years and finally got the opportunity to try it. I also sought barrel life that would be far superior to that of a 7mm WSM or 6.5-284. Ians father, Ken Klemm, finished third among High Masters, and also nailed the highest score among ALL shooters in the 1000-Yard F-TR team match. We comparison-tested a 6.5-284 rifle launching 142 SMKs at 2975 fps, a 300 WSM rifle firing 210 Bergers at 2850 fps, and my .284 Winchester shooting 180 Bergers at 2900 fps. The 6mmBR pilots could run off five shots before I could shoot two. I screw on the new barrel, fire 25 rounds of whatever I have left over and then clean it. Jason Jumped to Open Class after Starting with F-TR There are many improved variants of the original .284 Winchester: 7mm Walker, .284 Shehane, .284 Ackley and so on. Do you have a gun youd like to see featured there? However, to REALLY make a difference, you would need to get a cartridge capable of launching those 180's at a minimum of 3050+! _gaq.push(['_setDomainName', '.accurateshooter.com']); I bolted the barreled action in, and squeezed the end of the forearm and barrel together, the stock flexed a little bit, but not as much as other designs that I have tested. He covers sighter strategies and techniques for record fire, and he also explains, in detail, how he dopes the wind and judges hold-offs based on mirage. With N560 or Reloder 17 you can go even faster. For starters, a .300 WSM is certainly capable of winning mid-range matches but it is not ideal. Lets just say it didnt go as planned. Here are some of our favorite Pride and Joy rifles recently showcased in our Forum. The barrel action rides in a Roy Hunter stock. For those who do not have a dedicated barrel for fire-forming, this should help keep your round-count down. This gun hammers with 105gr Berger Hybrids., Courtesy Forum member Dan H., here are two red-stocked Dashers plus an Anschutz 54.30 (Benchrest Stock) to make it a trio. I prefer these because because of their size (large bedding footprint) smoothness, timing, options available, and last but not least visual appearance. Typical load for a Shehane is around 57.0 grains of Hodgdon H4831 SC. By blowing the sidewalls out 0.010, the .284 Shehane picks up about 3.3 grains of extra case capacity. I've not shot any of these but there's plenty of info out there. The stock in laminate weighs 3lbs. At the 2009 F-Class Nationals, held at Camp Butner, NC, Ballard shot a 1328-62X to win his second straight National title. It was fitted to my action by Dale Woolum of Woolum Accuracy. Also, most custom die makers want you to send them two or three cases, each fire-formed three times. If I feel there is a constant condition, I will click for the wind. On the old F-Class targets I would have been content with a Leupold 8-25 LRT, but on the new target a scope with 1/8-MOA adjustments and high magnification is a must. pressure to certify for sale to consumers. I run a 184gr Berger at about 2850 FPS and get great brass life in my other rifles. The gun gets transported in a Pelican Hard case when I travel. Owner Jason Cohen explained why he chose the .284 Shehane chambering: The .284 Shehane has a proven record of accomplishments and that is why I have chosen it. My purpose was to find a cartridge that would launch the high-BC, 180gr 7mm bullets at competitive velocities for F-Class competition. These steps are repeated until the bore is spotless. Using a tuner is easier than messing around changing loads and tweaking seating depths. I figured if I get it up to 2935-2950 fps that will be a point or two saved in a several day match. A 284 Shehane at 2900f.p.s. Dont want to invest in your own annealer? However, the challenge in shooting this rifle was recoil management. been shooting mine for years with a 25 inch 9 twist the 160 class will make 2950+ pretty easy but the 180 class even with a full case of rl-26 will start trashing brass pretty quick once you start getting near 2900 fps. At those distances the 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges rule. Q: First, do you have any advice for older shooters getting started in their golden years? Q: Some people say the .284 Shehane is not as accurate as the straight .284 Winchester. But in reality, on average, the .223 Rem, regardless of what powder/bullet combo is used, cannot compete with the .308 Win. My first impression was Wow thats a long stock the forearm is significantly longer than on the original Master Class F-Class prone stock.