Letter 246 describes a hypothetical confrontation between a hypothetical Ring-bearing Gandalf and Sauron: Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. Would the One Ring even work for anyone but Sauron? This is the real reason the eagles question will never die: Its too appetizing for The Lord of the Rings fans. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The one ring would have made him more like what he was before he left on his mission to middle-earth, only corrupted and evil. On the other hand, if the Stranger is Saruman, consider that journey and how it makes his transformation all the more tragic. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. To a lesser degree Faramir's disobedience also saved the Quest. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings, but it has to be said that there were a few different shapes of both characters. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? *Originally posted by Triskadecamus * These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. Although he never appears directly in the books and is only shown in the movies in a flashback to the War of the Last Alliance, his corruptive influence is felt nearly everywhere in Middle-Earth. mostly minifigs and decorated bricks. He only knew an orc band was loose and could cause problems and he feared an alliance between Saruman and Sauron which would be bad for Rohan so off he went. Sarumaon told Gandalf that a new power was rising and noone could srand and therefore they should join that power. Forces from Mordor and Rhun would have been sent to fight their way through Rohan, leaving Minas Tirith undefeated to the south. What money is available for senior citizens? Did she think she could have avoided being drawn to Sauron if she did seize the Ring? The White Wizard put Isengard at Sauron's disposal until his armies were defeated at Helms Deep and his staff was broken by the resurrected Gandalf. If Saruman had not been corrupted in the first place, the war might have gone much easier for the Free Peoples. Sauron would also realize the captured Halflings did not have the Ring so all the doubt surrounding Aragorn having it would be absent. As was made quite clear at the Council of Elrond, as long as the Ring existed Sauron could not fully be destroyed. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. By the end of Return of the King, Saruman has lost his powers and has resorted to becoming a lowly criminal. Saruman had decided to abandon his mission as an Istari and join Sauron in subjugating Middle-earth. Feel free to contact him by email at hawkins.blake12@gmail.com, or find him on Facebook. IIRC the idea of Galadriel taking it scared the bejeezus out of him. In any event, a confrontation between Saruman and Sauron seems as though it would not be a closely fought as the one between Gandalf and Sauron described above; Gandalf was able to cast-out Saruman, so it seems as though Sauron would have more easily had the upper-hand in such a contest. I think the real point has been missed. When Gandalf sent Frodo and the Hobbits to Bree in The Lord of the Rings' opening act, he had the fullest intent of meeting them there. Whats the threshold of power for a wielder of the one ring to defeat Sauron? )https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCScfG2CfbSh_LUzkGJ_p-aAHistory of Dragon Ball - (For all things Dragon Ball! Sauron was much the stronger, but a lot of his power is in the ring. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. We see this happening when Frodo claims the Ring at the Crack of Doom, and there's no reason to think it would be different for Saruman. Two Maiar duking it out at their full strength would have brought ruin to much of Middle-earth, and that was exactly what the Valar had hoped to avoid in the first place. Even though Frodo had a 4-5 day head-start further east and would be entering the Dead Marshes on March 1st, Saruman would also have had a head-start on everyone else in terms of knowledge and certainty. Lucky hit or not, he was vulnerable to a mere sword with no great magical ability or anything displayed that showed the ring as some huge magnifier of magical ability. If Saruman masters the ring, he will have a chance of defeating Sauron. **, And this kind of begs the question - What had been done with the three? Five wizards came to Middle-earth, so the Stranger could be any of them. After all, he was extremely powerful in his own right. Rings of Power (and a touch of Wheel of Time), Ignore/Block Essentials, Paid Registrations by. The stone had a green/purple coloring. The whole premise of The Lord of the Rings was to keep the One Ring (which existed for a long time) away from the Dark Lord Sauron. Nori even said in the finale that the Stranger was there to help. Why did Saruman seem to believe that Sauron wouldn't return? Balrogs are intelligent sentient beings. That he will never do now.". Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. I got down on bended knee at the top of the mountain and proposed. On February 26, 3019 Eomer, Third Marshal of the Riddermark, set out against orders from his king to hunt an orc band coming from the east. Please message us if we have not credited you! Indeed, Saruman needed no ring to become enslaved. However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent. JavaScript is disabled. It didn't have to shoot out lighting bolts to be an uber blade. I recall the Narsil having been forged by the elves, using elvish magic. He's the anti-hero in his own story who spends time with the Blue Wizards in the East, heads up the White Council, and eventually . To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. I mean, he was supposed to be powerful ANYWAY was he not? So it's possible that someone of sufficient power could break the Rings bond to Sauron. All the latest gaming news, game reviews and trailers. It may have taken a while to learn to use the Ring to its full potential, and Sauron would surely have put everything he had behind trying to get it back, but itd be iffy, and he certainly couldnt use the Nazgul or other ring-empowered creatures against the weilder of the One. Thus, the power of the Ring is both direct (like the power of a weapon) and symbolic (like the power of a cult object). Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? What would have happened if Saruman had gotten his hands on the One Ring? With the more powerful becoming all the more corrupted. What would happen if a Barrow-wight had taken the One Ring and why didn't they? I dont find it terribly exciting that Gandalf arrived in Middle-earth and was good from the beginning (with Noris help). When the good wizard Saruman uses one to spy on the peoples of Middle-earth, he is drawn in by its power and ensnared by . What happens next? Like the Valar He was created in the Beginning. Gandalf - open displays of power versus his restrictions as an Istar. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". One can imagine Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. In the hypothetic situation where Sauron thought, or knew, that Saruman had the Ring, I think he would have responded in a similar way. LEGO did such a great job with the printing on the figures! He would have learned what very few people knew - the actual objective of the Quest of the Ring, that it was being taken to Mt. Many of the vague abilities listed above are also part and parcel to those abilities listed below. If he followed the strategy I've mentioned, his fighters would have to deal with the feisty Rohirrim, and would also run the risk of a flank attack from Gondor, before they could even get near Isengard. That means Frodo had to destroy the Ring to destroy Sauron for good. Did Aragorn ever offer the ring to Frodo? *shrugs*. We learn that Denethor, steward of Gondor, had used the Palantir to divine knowledge of the Enemys movements only just before the steward burns himself alive. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? That's information that either could potentially use to tip the balance, but perhaps Saruman would also have had awareness that a contest with Sauron was one that he couldn't possibly win? But what would have happened if things had worked out differently? What would have happened if Saruman had gotten the One Ring? She seems to have seriously pondered what she might do if she got hold of the Ring, and she was only an Elf, not a Maiar like Saruman. All betting content is intended for an . It wasn't really a surprise. Because the One Ring was the master to all . In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. In what way? If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. The Witch-king of Angmar was the leader of the Nazgl, or Ringwraiths, and the right-hand man of Sauron through much of the Second and Third Ages of . It may not display this or other websites correctly. The free people of Middle-earth had possession of Sauron's One Ring, but that was only a minor Read more on cbr.com. " The Hunt for the Ring " is a chapter in Unfinished Tales, a posthumously published work of J.R.R. The Eye of Sauron is one of the most iconic symbols associated with J.R.R. It would have been the master in the end. It would be difficult for Sauron. #2. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf the Grey, but . He had already copied Sauron in every other aspect. Fury of the Gods Special: Shazamily Matters, A Lord of the Rings Theory Hints Tom Bombadil Was in the Movies All Along, 10 Sci-Fi Films That Bombed At The Box Office But Became Cult Classics. Either way, Saruman through torture or his Voice would have quickly learned everything about the Quest of the Ring. Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron with the power of the One Ring? First of all: Yes, you probably should watch at least The Two Towers before reading much further: that movie is all about Saruman's plans and schemes.. Having said that, there's a combination of things that have driven Saruman to act the way he does in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. 2) Saurman is defeated by Sauron and the ring is taken from him, destroying Saruman's mind. At the same time, most of the Elves were leaving Middle-earth, and Saruman betrayed everyone and joined Sauron. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? So if Saruman mastered the Ring, he would become the next Dark Lord of Middle-earth. But maybe thats a reason why hes Saruman and not Gandalf. So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. In the Silmarillion we have Iluvatar's strongest creation falling from grace.In many ways Saruman's fall is the 3rd Age equivalent. Narsil was made by the dwarves not elves. It may not display this or other websites correctly. In conclusion, if a Maia (Gandalf or Saruman) would get and use the ring, a bitter fight to the end would ensue between the keeper of the ring and Sauron, a fight even more bitter than the one between elves and orcs, Gondor and Mordor, much like an evil kinstrife to the death. **Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. The Rise Of LOTR's Witch-king Of Angmar. Saruman in the Shire: how long had he been planning it? Tolkien says in Letter 246 that the Ring is not only comparable to "a devastating weapon" (which Frodo doesn't know how to use) but also to "an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned to treat one who wielded it with servility". Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Is the man a thousand times stronger than a normal man? On the other hand, Sauron was not invincible either. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Thus, while Gandalf taking the One Ring would have expediated the destruction of Sauron, it also would have hasted the subjugation of Middle-earth. When Gandalf sent Frodo and the Hobbits to Bree in The Lord of the Rings' opening act, he had the fullest intent of meeting them there. But what if the Stranger is a different wizard we all know from The Lord of the Rings? He is Maiar. Sauron was not a run of the mill foe and an ordinary blade wielded by an ordinary man would not have sufficed. Then Sauron would have had the ring again and either he'd keep Saruman as a servant or just get rid of him for trying to be his equal. Yet, it's also possible that Sauron would have triumphed and regained the Ring for himself. His actions were more indirect as his decision was of non-action in not taking Frodo to Minas Tirith. After that there is no other mention of Aragorn and the Ring together. Just like when Sauron, arguably the most powerful 'mage' of that time, did during the last alliance the one where he lost due to a mere human? I don't think we've been given enough information to say whether Saruman or Sauron would have won the fight. We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron? I'm no Tolkien expert but I assume there would have been a great war between Isengard and Mordor, which would have affected all parts of Middle Earth. He reasoned that his total control of Middle . Would he have given the Ring back to Sauron or would he have kept the ring and contested Sauron for power over Middle-earth? We know that disobedience can bring ruin such as what happened with the Noldor when they disobeyed the Valar or the Army of the Dead when they disobeyed Isildur and broke their oath to fight for him. My understanding of the crushingly unavoidable fate which is the history of Middle Earth says that the One Ring belongs to Sauron and no other. It does not store any personal data. As with Gandalf or Galadriel, the Ring would comply with the good intent of their first efforts. But he didn't because Eomer disobeyed his king and destroyed an orc band that had the most crucial thing needed by both Saruman and Sauron - information. He had also extensively started studying the lore required to make his own ring of power. So all of the vanilla staves will get a retexture that adds a new color depending on their enchantment. One other Seeing Stone has been accounted for: the Stone of Minas Anor. House of Dragons vs. Sauron is the primary villain of The Lord Of The Rings. I'm a little vague on this point. I think Saruman would have kept the Ring and used its real and symbolic powers to contest with Sauron for control over Middle-earth by building up his own empire. His own greed and lust for power turned him to darkness on his own, and Sauron through the Palantir had already turned Saruman into his tool - though Saruman was of no use to Sauron at all once defeated. There's a moment near the end of The Two Towers when one of the Nazgul comes literally within arms' reach of the Ring.It happens in the ruined city of Osgiliath. She's an Elf, So Has a Very Long Lifespan. Ummm, thats what the One Ring does for someone who has zero magical ability. There would have been one less Peter Jackson movie. Unfortunately, Sauron had got on the wrong side of a particularly powerful race: the Nmenreans.The isle of Nmenr was a realm of men that sat apart from Middle-earth and those who lived there were more powerful than the men seen elsewhere in The Lord of . So what's a few millennia. What is the significance of Saruman's Ring? The Lord of the Rings doesnt have plot holes. Other powerul magic users such as Galadriel, Gandalf & Saruman can use the Ring to increase their power as that is what it was forged by Sauron to do, but it will never truly be completely under their will because Sauron's evil will already exists in the Ring. Nazgul were formidable opponants, under the right circumstances. If any artists would like us to remove their artwork, or add anything additional to credit you, please contact us and we will sort it straight away! With possession of the one ring he would have replaced Sauron (would have wiped him out entirely). He did not fear Sauron, but rather was forbidden to contest with him directly. Not true. By the time we meet Saruman in The Lord of the Rings, hes up to no good. The greatest act of disobedience in LOTR had possibly the greatest consequences which in the end saved the Quest of the Ring and saved Middle-Earth that being Eomer's act of disobedience. In fact, as recent graduate of Greensboro College's honors program, Blake wrote his thesis on Star Wars and its religious connections. Galadriel) might have been able to master the ring. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Also, it says in the book that the Nazgul went to Isengard demanding news of the ring and if Sauraman had the ring, Sauraman said if I had the ring you would bow down to me and call me lord I think Saruman would've won if he captured the ring. If he succeeded in doing that, Sauron would have been defeated because it was his saving anchor. Is Bosnia a developing or developed country? By the time of The Lord of the Rings, Saruman has become jealous of Saurons power (and Gandalfs too). For more information, please see our Still, this is a point to consider. After that, in the Undying Lands, Sauron was more powerful. Well what DID the Ring do for Sauron? What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? Now, consider Saruman. Heck, the great among the Elves, or even Aragorn, were considered very credible threats by Sauron. The Palantri. When he saw Aragorn marching on the Black Gate, he was afraid. Saruman was known for being subtle in speech (with a powerful ability to sway others with his voice) and skilled in smithcraft. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Yet, he had something that needed to be done first. https://www.patreon.com/thebrokensword-----Also if you want to support in a different way then check out our Teespring page where we upload original designs for our merch! If he didn't get the Truth from Saruman, he could get it from the halflings and if they were dead due to Saruman, capture and question any of Saruman's orcs or men roaming between Isengard and the Black Gate. He concealed his identity and ran away whenever he was confronted. Hes of the same order of beings as Sauron, so he certainly has enough power to effectively use the ring. Is Taco Bell healthier than other fast food? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Galadriel and Gandalf each made a conscious decision not to embark on such a course; but Saruman would not have hesitated. Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for science fiction and fantasy enthusiasts. Middle-earth & J.R.R. Well? What would have happened if the Balrog of Moria had taken possession of The One Ring? Some interesting conjecture, but you're forgetting that if anyone replaced Sauron as the "master" of the One Ruling Ring, they would sever Sauron's tie to the ring and essentially reduce him to an ineffectual spirit who could no longer interact with the physical world. You would have a situation where Saruman knows exactly where the Ringbearer is headed and Sauron knowing Saruman is suspiciously concentrated on the area from Parth Galen to the Black Gate. The key thing to note is that Sauron, by the time of the War of the Ring, lacked the ability to take a. I would not be too sure that Sauron would be the victor, as Saruman spent long years in study of ring-lore. However, The Lord of the Rings TV series still left plenty of questions for future seasons. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? What TV series related to the "Matter of Middle-earth" would you prefer to see? All of Saruman's scheming nearly came to fruition in The Two Towers. Obviously, the Uruk-hai didn't make it back to Isengard, and they didn't have the Ring anyway. What happens next would depend on Sauron himself; whether he would seek to retake the Ring immediately; whether he would visit Saruman himself or send a lesser servant. Tolkien Blog - by Michael Martinez Saruman probably would have become the dominant power in Middle Earth and turned it into a pretty crappy place to live. Answer (1 of 13): If Saruman acquired the One Ring and had time to learn to use it, then he would go to war against Sauron. As Istari, they were to exhort the free peoples of the world in preparation for a possible future conflict with Sauron. Although Saruman had selfish motives, he didn't expect to fall so deep . He caught up with the orcs and destroyed them in the early hours of the 29th. Although they did oppose the will of Sauron, while he did not have the one, they were still subject to his will, if he regained it, and all that had been done with them would be revealed. Let's first look at what would happen if Saruman succeeded, and then at his strategy for defeating Sauron. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. In fact, he had started searching for the . . Tolkiens trilogy its even plastered on the cover of several editions of the books. Gandalf feared the power the ring would give him. How to show that an expression of a finite type must be one of the finitely many possible values? The Uruk-hai capture Frodo and Sam at Amon Hen, thus Saruman gains possession of the most powerful of the Rings of Power, which carries in it, a greater part of Sauron's inherent might.