I'm fairly handy with DIY plumbing, but not and expert and I know when I am out of my league. The upfront cost is a major deterrent when deciding if it makes sense to install a circulation pump or not. Allow it to dry and then fix it back. Now, you have to know the hows for reducing damage. It also may be as simple as a dip switch in the tankless unit itself. The recirculation pump saves on water bills by reducing the time to get hot water. I have an NR240A for about 10 years now. For most existing homeowners, integrating a recirculating home pump comfort system on top of the existing piping makes much more sense: Heres why this is the most popular type of hot water recirculating pump in homes: You use the existing water pipe alone. It could be open or shorted. This on-demand water heater has a lower carbon footprint, is energy efficient, and has a longer lifespan. Otherwise, turn it off. Power Waste To reduce that time significantly (and stop needlessly wasting water), we can install hot water recirculating pump. The heater turns off automatically when the flue pipe surpasses 149 degrees Fahrenheit. . Obviously, everybody loves immediate hot water from their faucets but this luxury can be quite expensive. Ask Your Own HVAC Question b55db6.jpeg 6a7761.jpeg ee4ed0.jpeg cc7ba2.jpeg 8ec6a3.jpeg 32aa59.jpeg Always on checks in every 30 minutes and turns on the heat recirculation if the water is 9 degrees under the water goal temp. Once the tank is thoroughly drained, clean the base of the heater. Tankless Water Heater Wire Size Calculator: What Gauge Wire (AWG)? You can tell because the cold supply line is connected to the circulating return. Then re-insert the filter and screw it back in place. You must log in or register to reply here. To understand this problem what I am talking about, you can watch this video: First off, I recommend you check the primary loop. Hi Christopher, not really. Examine the thermistors condition and pump wiring connectors. Solar panels, wiring, old TVs and sometimes DIY powerwalls. Question: How is a water recirculating pump eco-friendly?Answer: The basic reason is, water recirculating pumps save water. Not only that, by now you should know how to turn it off and why its important to do so. I have a tankless water heater with an external recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. Connect a regular garden hose to the hot side service valve. When the water is sufficiently hot, the temperature sensor will shut off the power to the recirculation pump to conserve energy. Buzzing noise out of the recirculation pump will be general if you or your plumber dont mount the pump securely. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. Here is the summary of all the negative aspects of hot water circulation pumps: This is the key question. What disadvantages, beside cost???? The Navien is smart enough to stop recirculation when it recognises hot water has made the entire loop. Im interested in information on a tankless water heater with a built in recirculating pump. Does anyone know the logic behind how Navien controls their internal recirculation pump when it is circulating with an external loop? Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? This type of hot water recirculation system is most appropriate for new homes; homes that are in the 3rd or 4th part of the building process. (State-By-State Chart), How To Convert Therms To kWh? Carbon monoxide (CO) is a tasteless, colorless, odorless, and highly poisonous gas which can be deadly to humans in high concentrations. Disconnect the power supply to the water heater. Hello Frank, one of the disadvantages of recirculating pumps is that you have to wait for cold water a bit. I obviously dont know much about this but the plumber is giving reasons that feel like he is making up dont make sense to me: 1. Get it as soon as Wednesday, Mar 1. That's an interesting solution. After draining a few hot water tanks over the years, removing sediment, will the cold water now possibly have some sediment and/or taste issues. You can contact a plumber if necessary. Though we share resources, information, and educational guide on plumbing & DIY projects, the content here is not a substitute for professional guidance. I recall it was p23 but it was definitely larger than p20. The recirculation timer is set to operate ever 15 minutes, even though we are often not at the property. At the same time, someone is in the kitchen doing the dishes. For more information, please see our You can crack open the manual for your tankless heater and check if it comes with that option. Note: Remember to turn off power to the heater before replacing the gasket. If you have a Navien tankless water heater this can be done by simply pressing a . This might be a small installation error or a faulty setting. Both options use less energy than a continuously-running system. This requires the installation of an additional water pipe. Its clearly not always running as I can see it says standby on the display most of the time. The remote control module sits beside this area (I have it floating but I'll put double stick tape and mount it to the interior soon) and the antenna lead drops through a grommet (conveniently already available at the bottom of the unit near the pcb) to the outside. 3. This serves two functions: This is also true for tankless water heaters. Only 13 left in stock - order soon. Navien's patented ComfortFlow system is the first to include a buffer tank, recirculation pump and fine-tuned controls into a tankless water heater, resolving the cold-water sandwich effect* and issues of minimal flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. Thanks! That is a premium service however. You can replace the sensor if needed. We might be able to do something about it. All in all, its important to understand that recirculation pumps are worth the money. So, hire a professional to deal with the issue. if your water heater has 4 connections (CW in; HW out; condensate; gas) then the recirculation occurs within the water heater - IMO don't see the benefit in this setup as the water in the HW distribution system doesn't see flow . 2. Follow the steps below to clean your Navien water heater; Note: If you are unsure of your ability to handle this task, hire a professional to clean the heater. It is propelled only by water pressure. It's unfortunate he's not around to explain all this to you. When you turn on the shower or a faucet, do you get hot water instantly? Let the vinegar cycle through the cold side for 45 minutes. I guess the recirculation line will be the only one that is copper. Ensure that all hot water faucets are closed, and ensure that the internal circulator and any external circulating pumps are off. If we dont use it, we waste a lot of water. The only place that quickly gets hot (and really hot) is the guest bath which happens to be right next to the water heater. We want to reduce waste in using water given our well situation. You May Forget to Purge The Recirculation Pump, 03. Another sign is the error code display. Continue reading below Our Video of the Day 1. Sure there is likely some distance between the recirculation line and the fixture which should me some time till hot water reaches. Also the unit needs to be set to utilize the recirculation feature. Then, turn it on again. Why Does My Stiebel Eltron Tempra High-limit Switch Keep Tripping. If you look at the instructions, which tech support emailed to me, there is a Signal 1 input for 12 or 5V devices including remote controls or motion sensors BTW the other remote was sold out. Think hot water loops returning to your boiler to get reheated (to stay hot) Think LOOPS!! Then what are we waiting for? The circulation return needs to come from a loop at an end of the hot supply line. You will not get hot water instantly. Depending on the size of the pump and installation difficulty, the average cost of a hot water recirculation pump costs anywhere from $200 to $800 (installed). Also, turn off the water heater, and recirculate the pump. After using this amount of time, hardware gets old and starts to malfunction. Here are some of the leading causes of cold water production; Which means there isnt enough time for the water to heat up. Here is a list of advantages associated with hot water circulating pumps: Now lets have a look at the disadvantages of these pumps: Needless to say, recirculation pumps are not free. What is more, you can, by these estimates, reduce the future water bill considerably and actually profit nicely just by not needlessly waiting for water when youre waiting for the hot water to kick in. If we take that the average price of water is $0.18/gallon (according to Statistas 2019 study), heres how much you can save on water with a recirculation pump: Water Savings = 2,920 gallons/year * $0.18/gallon = $525.60/year. To remedy the issue, consider increasing the gas supply to the heater. 6\" Magnetic Nut setter Sethttps://amzn.to/2JdAckuMilwaukee 48-22-6330 Tongue and Groove Pliers Sethttps://amzn.to/3kfch0RGoPro Hero 8 Black Action Camera with Accessory Bundlehttps://amzn.to/34AGamfVeto Pro Pac Tech XL Tool Baghttps://amzn.to/2U1QqPFOLIGHT Bundle H2R LED Headlamp, 2300 Lumens Rechargeable Flashlighthttps://amzn.to/370rGiqAmprobe AMP-320 Clamp Meterhttps://amzn.to/2GNxUHeFluke 117 Electricians True RMS Multimeterhttps://amzn.to/3iFZP9tMilwaukee 2364-20 M12 Roverhttps://amzn.to/2HNvitKMilwaukee Rocket light 2132-20https://amzn.to/341OTPm #MIHeatingGuy #MichiganHeatingGuy On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. In existing homes, adding an additional pipe for a full recirculating pump system is often too expensive; its just dont worth it, according to HVAC specialists. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. I have alos checked my HeatBox settings to ensure the temp is set high enough for my domestic supply (set to around 120 degrees). (Per Hour, Month, Year), How Much Does A Tankless Water Heater Cost? Your Navien Recirculation Pump will make a humming noise like a refrigerator if you dont bleed the air out of the recirculation system. Free returns are available for the shipping address you chose. Your article ended saying All in all, its important to understand that recirculation pumps are worth the money. If that fails, then the pump impeller might have disintegrated or the system water pressure may be below 0 at the pump suction causing the pump to cavitate. I kind of feel like he is trying to get away with something that wasnt installed properly but hopefully I am wrong. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after youve turned it off for your safety. This gives users hot water when they need it, saving water and money. Nobody really likes waiting for the hot water to start flowing under the shower or doing the dishes, for example. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. That installation is incorrect. Years of experience in the HVAC field have taught him many lessons, not the least of which is that the value of quality and knowledge far exceeds any promised initial savings. Watt recirculating pump installed on the water heater (pump plugged into standard 110/120V outlet, 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors, valve). That means that this household wasted 8 gallons of water per day just waiting for hot water. Contents show It will help you avoid common water heater issues and let you operate the unit smoothly. It clips on the side of the PCB board without screws and then you connect a ribbon cable to the PCB. I recently had a 240A2 installed. Depending on the age of your Navien NPE-A model, he did you a favor. If the problem persists after reset, replace the APS as soon as possible. (42-167 Amps), How Much Propane Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages. It worked perfectly. Types of water circulation pumps, including tankless water heater recirculation pumps. Close the isolation valves to the cold-supply and recirculation lines. Turning off the water recirculating pump isnt a big deal. Well, If you overuse your pump, it will start malfunctioning. (std. When building a house, its smart to think about hot water recirculation as well. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Also, check the feeder valve and pressure relief valves activity. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. We recommend to use caution and seek the advice of qualified professionals. When the heat exchanger starts to crack, it creates a gap that can escape toxic exhaust gasses. 2. It is a visible sign that your devices cold water inlet two thermistor is having some issues. But it will be best if you contact a certified plumber to fix this issue. The recirculation pump will make a squeaking noise if the installer fails to install the primary loop correctly. We have to keep the valve on and slowly hot water comes out. Let's hop in! Then check to see if the plumbing lines and the heaters water lines are clogged. Thats all for today. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Typically recirc lines connect at the furthest fixture and allows hot water to flow through the main trunk lines. These are the 3 most often recommended brands for tankless water heaters with recirculation pumps. Where did you find that info? If you have come back from a vacation, first turn on the main water valve. All you have to know is how to turn it off. Those are quite significant savings. The setup is correct and the only two settings you need are P.12 for recirculation time and P.16 for length of recirculation line from farthest point in the house. The timer has control over when the pump is working continuously. That install is exactly as specified in the newer manuals. You also have to flush the heat exchanger. Is the cable harness compatible? Check the thermistors condition along with pump wiring connectors. The water heater will not provide hot water instantly. Turn off the device and examine the APSs condition. Examine the wiring and thermistors condition. It is important to note that recirculation pumps dont work continuously; they are used only when we open and close the faucet. Therefore, I can't drain the system. if your water heater has 5 connections ( CW in; HW out; Recirc in; condensate ; gas) then the recirculation is coming backing to the water heater. Calculator + Chart (Natural Gas), Average Gas Bill For 1-Bedroom Apartment: State-By-State Cost Analysis, Average Electricity Bill For 4 Person Household (Survey Analysis), How Many kWh Per Day Is Normal? This issue is more common in older heater models. Separate Recirculation Pumps. Second, you can use a flex connector to isolate the pump. If it does, you could trigger the operation to save money whenever your system detected 'away' or however you've got it programmed. There are special tankless water heater recirculation pumps for Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units; we will cover them all. Is this noise normal coming from my Navien tankless heater? Place a bucket underneath it to catch any water that drains when you remove the filter. Place the filter assembly back into the water heater and secure it with the screw. Remove and clean the cold air intake filter. Ensure the main gas supply valve is open. On a side note, if your Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, it may have air locks or installation problems. This made me suspicious that water was coming from the mains. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200